HR Disc Brakes

Brakes discussion.

HR Disc Brakes

by BrownEH » Thu Jun 30, 2022 3:09 pm

Hi,
I'm a New member to this site.
I have just located a Barn Find from deceased estate, an EH Special Sedan that was last on road in 1988/1989 (31500 Miles on the clock), hopefully pick it up next week.
Brown with white roof, original paint but will be required to have as a minimum a closed door respray.
All brakes were locked on, so wheels off, pads removed and rear shoes backed off so it can be rolled onto a trailer.
Engine turned over by hand (Not seized) with oil down plug holes, wants to start but won't run, good sign so far although I will give engine freshen up, has been painted in wrong colour its red.
Radiator will need either replacing or if it can be satisfactorily be flushed event better.
Tires (2 of the four were flat) but look almost brand new, all pumped up sadly for safety sake they will be replaced.
It has modifications, engine is not original as far as I can tell on first inspection.
The modifications are 5 Speed Celica Gear Box, HR front discs, Dual Braking system, power booster and 15" wheels off a HT (I think). The modifications were done by "The Rod Shop" according to paperwork found in the car.
As far as I can tell car has no rust, all the floors (Inside and underneath not sure if inside doors were done) and boot painted with bitumen from new, there is surface rust on not through the paint caused from rain leaking though garage's corrugated roof.
Front seat frame has been modified to allow room for 5 Speed gear stick.
All door cards are 100% OK no tears or cuts.
Rear seat back is damaged beyond repair but all seats in original covering.

Question:
I'd like to return car to its original 13" wheels, does EH rims fit a HR Disc bake system or should I located HR 13" rims? I understand the centres between EH (Drum) and HR Disc are different.
Would it be better to Install Premier front seats in place of existing modified bench seat?
To make car nice to show and drive, is it better to take it back to as close to original as possible with Auto replaced (Remove the 5 speed) and Disc brakes, etc.
OR
Should I do a sensitive restoration with all modifications as is, but looking really good with new paint, etc and driving well.
Cheers Guys and Girls :D
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by Harv » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:03 am

Depends a lot on what you want to do with the car.

If you want to do a lot of highway miles, or drive the car in a "sporty" manner then the 5-speed and discs will feel a lot better than a Hydramatic and drums.

If you want to mostly show the car in open car shows, then a clean-up and keep the mechanicals will work. Most car show attendees will not know that the 5-speed, ball joints and discs are not original. Most early Holden club events also cater to cars that have "sports" type modifications, so you will likely feel at home there too.

If you want to play with the serious EH nuts, then go back to full original. It can be rewarding having an original car, and hunting down the last little pieces to make it right.

Cheers,
Harv
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by BrownEH » Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:22 am

Hi Harv
Thanks for the advise.
My feeling is make it as great as possible with mechanicals the car come with as that's how I discovered it and all I'm doing is enhancing its display and drive profile.
Cheers
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by Harv » Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:28 am

One thing to be wary of is that the brake modifications (and in some cases the gearbox change) can be frowned upon by the state registration authorities.

Back in the 60/70/80's it was OK to do brake upgrades (or changes to suspension like bolting in a HR front end) without any engineering. There are quite a few cars running around that were modified back then. The rules have changed though, and most states now require either an engineers certificate or special inspection for those modifications.

If the car has been in constant registration since the 60/70/80's, then the registration authorities usually consider it to be "grandfathered", and no engineering is required to keep renewing the rego. Once the registration lapses, the grandfathering ends, and engineering is needed to get the car registered again.

Some people ignore the new rules, and "know a bloke who will pass it through rego with the discs/changes". To be honest, most rego inspection stations will not know that the EH did not come out with a 5-speed and discs. This is their choice, but takes a risk that they can still be fined if pulled up in a roadside inspection, or can have their insurance company reject their claim (that would not be much fun if you ran your early Holden into a Lamborghini, or worse still hurt someone and put them on long term medical support).

Engineering process (and costs) vary from state-to-state. It can be simple as some paperwork and a special inspection by the rego authorities (South Australia), or a few thousand dollars worth of formal engineering inspection and road testing (NSW). Some engineers will accept the paperwork from the Castlemaine Rod Shop (mine did), others will want to do their own certification before signing off. That can turn out to be a lot of fuss for discs and a gearbox.

If it was my EH, I'd have a chat to whoever I thought was going to do my registration, and with the rego authority. A couple of 15 minute phone calls will soon ease your mind on just how much drama would be need to keep the upgrades, and may make you choose one way over another.

Cheers,
Harv
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by BrownEH » Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:26 am

Hi Harv,
Good advise, I have such a person is is a registered authorised Victorian RWC I'll get him involved ASAP. If I need to get it re-engineered again I would much prefer to do that and be certain the car is accepted by all authorities than take a punt and get caught. Its better also if at some point in the future I wish to sell it the next custodian of the EH is covered.
Cheers
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by claysummers » Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:17 pm

Hi brownie,
If your wheels are 15" they may be Volvo. HKTG were 14" and about 32mm positive offset.

Original FE to EH wheels won't fit HD HR drums or discs. Although they bolt up they distort the drums and foul callipers. You can use HD HR HK HT HG LC LJ LH LX UC and even VB 4cyl centres but watch the rim offset. HK and torana rim will probably foul tie rod end and upper wishbone the later especially on lock.

HD HR will take original caps but they stick out further and dobt look right, due to modification to suit the wider brakes. Best solution for 13" is HD or later centres in 6" rims with just enough negative offset to clear the upper control arm at the front, on lock. These are sometimes available with ROH type manufactured centres, which is what the HT HG and later Toranas had. Some say they don't retain hub caps but never found it a problem myself.

Tyre range for 13" is limited however.

I agree with you and Harv in retaining the current mods though auto and tall diff is an option also. The seat is s personal choice but you will find premier seats scarce and expensive. No engineering required in SA, just acceptable performance and workmanship.
Cheers,
Clay

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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by BrownEH » Thu Aug 11, 2022 10:40 pm

Hi Clay
My mistake the wheels are actually 14" off HT with HQ Hub Caps.
On investigation my spindles are HQ on a HR Ball joint front end and 14" wheels are only option for this setup so they don't bind when turning.
But have now been informed that a Steel Wheel manufacturer in Geelong (Victoria) can fit centres that an EH Hub Cap will fit but 14" rims with whatever offset is required.
On rest of car I'm now fitting a 3 Speed Trimatic Auto, diff is 3.36:1 Ratio with selector on steering column so it looks almost standard.
Front seats will be reworked back to full bench without the cut-out to clear the Celica gear stick.
So other than Discs/wheels it will look "almost" standard.
The 179 Engine when removed I found was actually bored to 186 and is now at my engine guy for balance, nicer very mild cam and overall freshen up while I'm waiting for Trimatic Kit to arrive.
Next decision before Cam is ground is do I use single barrel Carby or fit a WW carbie if I can locate one along with inlet manifold and set of cast Iron headers that I can afford.
Then its body and paint decision time....
Cheers ;)
 
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Re: HR Disc Brakes

by claysummers » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:52 pm

Very interesting. So you have HR calipers and hubs on hq spindles?

179 out to 186 is a common way to go I'm told, as casting is the same. So the result is equivalent to a fresh standard bore 186. As a result oversize 179 slugs are virtually unobtainable. Ihave this setup in my FB ute.

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